Transitioning into Parenthood with Sue Stephens and Remko Glatzhofer S2 I Ep7

In this episode, we bring attention to one of life’s important transitions- the transition into parenthood. Developmental scientists consider it to be one of the biggest changes in our lives, changing behaviors, identities, relationships, and much more, and it impacts everyone involved. 

This journey into parenthood has significant impact on one’s life and career, and so we wanted to find out how working parents effectively integrate these changes. We also wanted to recognise the important work that organisations and leaders do to support their employees as they navigate through this important transition. 

In this episode, we speak with husband and wife team, Sue Stephens and Remko Glatzhofer. Sue and Remko are proud parents of beautiful 2 year old Logan. Between juggling their busy lives as loving parents, they are both accomplished leaders in the technology industry. 

We have a candid conversation about their lives as working parents, living away from immediate family in Europe, and juggling their demanding roles at work. How do they effectively integrate their lives as parents with their busy careers? How do they leverage on their network to support them? And how did their organisations and leaders support them on their journey? 

This episode is for everyone! Whether you’re a working parent yourself, or work with parents on your team, getting an authentic point of view will help you navigate your working life with greater confidence! 

Connect with us on LinkedIn:

· Vanessa Iloste (Host)

· Vanessa Teo (Host)

· Aaron Wu (Producer)

Transcript

[00:00:00] Vanessa I: Today we welcome to our show Sue Stephens and Remko Glatzhofer. Sue and Remko are a couple and both of them are accomplished professionals in the technology industry. They are also parents to a beautiful two year old daughter named Logan. 

[00:00:21] Vanessa T: We're focusing this week's episode on an important transition in life and career and that is the transition into parenthood.

[00:00:29] Now this transition is profound. Developmental scientists consider it to be one of the biggest changes in our lives, changing behaviors, identities, relationships, and much more, and it impacts everyone involved. 

[00:00:43] Vanessa I: That's right. In today's episode, we are looking forward to sharing the experiences with other working parents.

[00:00:50] Whether you are a working parent yourself or you work alongside working parents, this episode will help you shed light on the parenthood transition. Thank you for joining us and enjoy the episode. 

[00:01:04] Vanessa T: Hi, everyone. Welcome to our new episode of Career Transitions. We're your hosts, Vanessa Iloste and Vanessa Teo.

[00:01:12] Vanessa I: Today, we're very happy to welcome to our show, Sue Stephens and Remko Glatzhofer. Hello to the both of you.

[00:01:19] Remko & Sue: Hello. 

[00:01:21] Sue S: Thanks for having us. 

[00:01:22] Vanessa I: We're very excited today because it is the first time that we have a husband and wife team with us. This is something we wanted to do for a long time. So thank you for agreeing to join us and we are really looking to understand how Sue and Remko transition into life and career as working parents.

[00:01:42] We would like to hear the journey of transition from both parents, as we know that the challenges that you have experienced are very different. 

[00:01:50] Vanessa T: So welcome to our show, Sue and Remko. Let's start by introducing Sue to everyone first. Now, Sue is Curaçao born, Netherlands raised, global citizen who resides in Singapore.

[00:02:03] As head of Meta's business growth, she has spent the last 15 years building her industry experience, spanning across various job functions, including human resources and head of customer success at LinkedIn. Now, Sue made the Financial Times Top 30 Ethnic Minority Leaders in 2017 for her work with underrepresented talents.

[00:02:26] Coming from humble beginnings and knowing that firsthand that opportunities aren't distributed equally, Sue continues to make a difference to those following in her footsteps. Thank you, Vanessa. Whenever I hear that, it kind of sounds a bit unreal. Hearing that about yourself. 

[00:02:42] Vanessa I: Well, it's true. And Remko is originally from the Netherlands.

[00:02:46] He kicked off his career in the construction engineering industry, but transitioned into the world of data in 2012 and has held a broad spectrum of roles. From being a data analyst, formerly using MS Excel to BI development, he has built data marts and dashboards. He now mixes both and adds a layer of strategy and actionable insight on top.

[00:03:09] Today, Remko leads Linkedin Inside Talent Solution and has been there for the past six years. Welcome Remko. 

[00:03:16] Remko G: Thank you so much. 

[00:03:17] Vanessa T: So I first got to know Sue when we were both doing our postgraduate studies in 2020. And it was during that time that Sue and Remko had beautiful Logan, their beautiful daughter.

[00:03:29] I have full admiration for how Sue, I don't know how you do it Sue, how she managed to engage, stay engaged throughout our entire course at school and powered through writing her thesis all while juggling becoming a new mom at that time. You've got to know Remko that Sue always spoke about how supportive you were throughout the entire journey.

[00:03:51] Remko G: That's amazing. 

[00:03:52] Vanessa T: What's really struck me about the two of you and how you charted your career paths together was how supportive you were both of each other. And that really made this dual career work for the two of you across continents, across countries. So that's, that's really great to hear. 

[00:04:08] Now, tell us a little bit more about your pride and joy, your little daughter, Logan. Tell us a little bit more about her. 

[00:04:16] Sue S: First of all, I love that you clarify she's a little girl. She's a fierce little girl. Her name is Logan, but we often get asked if she is a boy or a girl. She's very smiley, easygoing, loves to dance and sing and climbing.

[00:04:31] So much so that sometimes my heart truly has a small moment where I have to hold myself back to tell her not to be careful. While she's very chill and easygoing, she's also most definitely a fierce personality. So I think it'll be very interesting to see this one grow up into a teenager at some point, which I'm sure will be faster than we think will happen.

[00:04:51] Vanessa T: So to our listeners, many of you may know that Vanessa Iloste and I are both mommies too. I have two boys, Isaac and Asher, and they're aged 10 and 8 years old. 

[00:05:02] Vanessa I: And I'm the proud mom of Héloïse and Raphaël, and they are 12 and 10 years old. 

[00:05:07] Vanessa T: So this session is really a conversation of transitions into parenthood.

[00:05:13] And each one of us will come with our stories. And so today we're just super curious to know about your transition into parenthood. 

[00:05:21] Sue S: Yeah, so I'll kick us off. I think the first thing that I want to share is there is no way that I sat down a few years ago together with Remko and said, let's have a baby in the pandemic.

[00:05:32] And you know what, let's throw a master's on top of that and not be able to visit our family. So some of these things also happened outside of control. So my context was that I was relatively new in Asia, so I was still building my experience and exposure of the region. And in my role, I looked after Malaysia, but doing so in a remote context.

[00:05:52] So I was transitioning in my role within this part of the world, the pandemic at a backdrop. Working full time in what was a very challenging environment. And then INSEAD happened and then baby on top. So it was definitely a very, very challenging time. And I think there's a physical aspect of pregnancy.

[00:06:13] Thankfully though, there were definitely the positive sides also because I was pregnant during the pandemic, I could also have the odd nap from time to time, which let's face it. As you become bigger, I think you definitely need that. So my reflection on this, as I was thinking about this is that becoming a new parent in this time, first of all, the pandemic is anxiety inducing for sure.

[00:06:39] Becoming a new parent is also anxiety inducing. It kind of feels like you're transitioning into a role you're not quite qualified to do. So it was anxiety on top of anxiety, but then also we did seek out for support and resources. And it was one thing that I thought was just so brilliant that we did. It was a course we did with the Gottman Institute.

[00:07:04] They're quite known for more marriage counseling side of things, but they also do this course, which is specifically for new parents and the course is called Bringing the Baby Home. But what's really funny is it's not actually about bringing the baby home. It's about what happens between the couple in terms of all the dynamic around the stresses and whatnot.

[00:07:28] And if I think back and I reflect on that period, which was incredibly overwhelming, this is the one thing that really stands out that I think helped both Remko and I navigate what was probably in our 18 years together, one of the most challenging time in our relationship. There were of course also a lot of joy.

[00:07:44] Remko G: Yeah, for me, it really was a beautiful and tiring at the same time. It really was a steep learning curve, like Sue said, right? You get a new job, a role without really having, you know, the preparation for it. And after leaving the hospital, you really are thrown in the deep and you'll just learn as you go.

[00:08:00] I would say we learned pretty fast, right? As we're making the hours 24 seven. But, you know, I was super happy that we had our nanny at home with experience and we could both learn, learn from her. And because of COVID, it was also the norm to work from home, which was great actually, as after my initial two weeks of pat leave, I could still spend the time with Sue and Logan in my breaks and just walk down, you know, to the different room, which is amazing.

[00:08:24] I think as Sue mentioned before as well from the Gotham Institute, the training that we did, but what really worked well for us is that we made agreements as a couple before the birth. An example, Sue would breastfeed at night and I would do the diaper change. We also made sure that we had more intentional time to connect as a couple, where we would have kind of cues to connect.

[00:08:42] For example, asking, what are your stressors during the lunchtime? So that really all helped us transitioning into that parenthood. 

[00:08:50] Vanessa T: Vanessa, I have a question for you. Just as Remko was talking about the stressors of parenthood, what was your experience like, Vanessa Iloste, when you first became a new parent?

[00:09:01] Vanessa I: So, I have a very supportive husband, and he was so happy and so excited about the journey of becoming a parent. He was much more excited than me, and he was ahead of the learning curve, because he actually had many many brothers and sisters, he was coming from a very large family. And me, I think I didn't want to lose my identity as a businesswoman.

[00:09:24] I was extremely proud of being a very, very energetic and always on businesswoman. And I was like, Oh my God, I mean, I'm, I'm going to lose this part of me. It was so hard to become a businesswoman. I didn't want to let it go. So it was interesting to have this experience, uh, as Remko and Sue have gone through and having different learning journeys.

[00:09:48] And I'm very grateful for my husband to have been on my side and not judge me because I, I, I was very scared of being judged, of being a bad mummy or being a not very attentive mummy. And he was always positive and supportive. So yeah, I think that without him, I'm not sure I would have started the journey.

[00:10:08] Vanessa T: Well, speaking of transitions, transitions into parenthood is, is a very profound one, and it impacts everyone who's involved. And so, Sue and Remko, as you reflect on the many shifts or reorganizations that you've had to make as parents, what stands out to you as the most significant? 

[00:10:26] Remko G: For me is that my schedule is not my schedule anymore.

[00:10:29] There are three key moments in a day during the week that I would try to be part of as much as I can. It's just the morning time where I'm giving milk to my baby, our toddler now, school pick up and bedtime. And just to give an example of a normal day, I wake up when Logan wakes up, so I do the morning duty.

[00:10:46] I get her out of bed, give her milk. So if I have a late night, maybe social, but also maybe a late work meeting the day before, I can't really decide to sleep, or at least I prioritize being there with her. The same as for me is for picking her up from infant care at 5 p. m. I have to be efficient in my work, right?

[00:11:03] As I prioritize being at her infant care at 5 p. m. And then lastly, bedtime. I really had to work on this one because initially I would just be, you know, doing social connect, do workout around this time resulting in me not being able to put her to bed. And I actually disliked that and I rearranged my schedule over the time to prioritize being with her for bedtime majority of the week.

[00:11:26] Well, this is a normal day, which you can still plan for, but then you also have the days that Logan got sick, right? You know, has to go to the doctor, maybe, or et cetera. So these days are real teamwork and I would call it mission control. Sue and I would have to check our calendars and align with less important things that were going on to clear up the schedule and really be with Logan.

[00:11:46] It sounds quite simple, but can be really stressful at times when we both need to deliver on a deadline or so. And I'm actually really proud on us as we've always been able to do great teamwork here. 

[00:11:57] Sue S: Yeah, I really echo what Remko shared there, particularly around the, the struggle to juggle. Because, you know, as parents, there's all these memes on the internet, you know, drink your water, meditate, journal, exercise, and so on and so forth, right?

[00:12:12] So it is definitely not easy, but I think on the intentionality side of things, I want to go back to something that was shared earlier was around this identity piece. I think for me, I struggled with this identity piece and trying to figure out like, can I be a good mom, a good wife, friend, daughter, and also still prioritize my career.

[00:12:33] Reflecting back on the time when I transitioned into work, it was at the back end of the master's degree and the two worlds really collided. So it meant that my mat leave, I didn't have a hundred percent mat leave. I was already starting the juggle between writing the thesis and being with Logan. So in that sense that helped me transition to work because I already had to juggle.

[00:12:57] But when going back to work, I noticed in myself that I had this real need to prove my capability and to showcase to my colleagues, and at the time I had a new manager, that my career was still very important to me. And reflecting on it, I now realize that at the time I was definitely overstretching in terms of just being able to be seen to be a good worker, an employee.

[00:13:23] But then the reality was I was still breastfeeding and I had to go and schedule time to pump. Or when I traveled for work, Logan would travel with me and our nanny would come along. And then trying to like figure all of that out, having a keynote in the morning, but somehow Logan was ill and I was at A& E with her in the evening.

[00:13:44] And then somehow made it for that keynote and delivered something that apparently was quite good. I think there was an aspect of whilst I transitioned with that identity piece, there was also some real confidence that emerged that I was like, I don't know that there's anything more difficult than me birthing my baby.

[00:14:02] So you know what? I've got this. So I think it went hand in hand with overstretching, but equally also somehow having this confidence emerged for me as a new mommy. 

[00:14:12] Vanessa I: I really relate to what Sue was talking about. I also had this moment of joy and also feeling very, very proud of myself for being able to juggle many, many things at the same time.

[00:14:23] So it's quite interesting, this paradox that you were talking about, Sue, in terms of being at the same time totally out of your comfort zone and feeling completely unbalanced and then finding your balance again and then feeling like you're a superwoman because you have actually recovered your balance almost at the last minute.

[00:14:44] So this is quite an interesting paradox that I like very much. I wanted to ask you what surprised you about yourself through this transition? Was there anything that surprised you or maybe in your couple that you didn't expect from each other? 

[00:14:59] Remko G: Yeah, good question. It was really tough at start, right? The toughest thing for me was before Logan hit the age of four months and I only had like four hours of sleep a day, broken sleep, you know, it was a tough period, right?

[00:15:10] To be honest, I can't remember at the same time a lot of it because I think I had a lack of sleep and your brain doesn't work. Your memory doesn't save anything. There's no REM, right? For memory collection. But while I was transitioning into parenthood, I also started a new leadership role with a new team and new stakeholders, a new market.

[00:15:28] I really had moments that I thought, I'm not sure if I'm up for the job. I'm not making the connections. I am not getting it. And I really had moments I've actually felt quite emotional as well on it. Like I didn't feel like I'm good enough and I can't do it. Right. Not realizing in that moment that this is a result of not sleeping at all.

[00:15:45] Of course, I'm not making the connections. I'm very sleep deprived at that moment. So I think after these initial four months and when Logan started sleeping through the night, life shifted a lot. It really fell on top of things again. And aside from this moment, it really makes, you know, it's making sure I work more efficiently and be more clear on my priorities as I shared earlier.

[00:16:06] Sue S: And like, I remember that time first I was still on mat leave and just massive kudos to Remko cause he was getting up at night with me. So I would breastfeed and then he was the chief diaper officer. But I know for many of my friends, their husbands would just go and sleep in a different room altogether.

[00:16:24] So, even though I was like, you know, you have to work tomorrow, I'm still on mat leave, if you kind of sleep, he was like, no, like, I'm, I want to be an involved parent. So I think there was a crash at some point, but for most parts, pretty much all throughout, he really got up and did the chief diaper officer role exquisitely, I must say.

[00:16:42] For my side of things, when I think about that transition, it's working differently. So I remember very vividly that I had to present in one of the early days coming back from mat leave and mid sentence, I forgot what I was saying. And I can't even imagine this now, but this is one of the ways around what you were talking about, Vanessa, how your brain just really adjusts and you need a bit of time and to be kind with yourself.

[00:17:09] But thankfully I did have very dear colleagues who could jump in for me. The other transition that was happening in the background, which I thought might be interesting to share is I went on mat leave and the company was still Facebook. I one day was breastfeeding Logan and I learned of the new company named Meta.

[00:17:27] So by the time I came back, a new set of values had been rolled out. Everybody rallied around the new name. But I was like, wait, what happened here? I thought I worked for Facebook. So there was still that transition that I'd had to make within myself. And then secondly, I came back to an expanded scope.

[00:17:45] When I went on mat leave, I only covered Malaysia. When I came back, I took on Philippines in addition to Malaysia. So that was kind of contextual for the organization and for my role. And I think this piece around working differently and organizing myself, like previously I'm like, Oh, I'll just finish this like last minute or 11 PM, kind of that procrastinator.

[00:18:06] That wasn't happening anymore because like Remko said, between 5 and 5. 30, we wanted to go and pick up Logan from daycare. So really tweaking to say like, okay, previously I'd get involved in all of the socials, all of these things. But in prioritization just became so useless that I started like eating lunch by myself and figuring out how to like juggle it and kind of sort it all out.

[00:18:28] Whereas previously, I don't remember having that level of rigidity because it was no little person waiting to be picked up at the end of the day. 

[00:18:38] Vanessa T: I can totally resonate with what you guys said about prioritizing viciously, because I, I felt that I also ended up doing the same thing as I transitioned into parenthood.

[00:18:49] I still remember Vanessa Ilostey and I worked together at that same time where I was traveling very, very frequently. And I still remember having to prioritize between breastfeeding. Pumping breast milk and making sure that I was on time for delivery of all of the work items. You just get extremely efficient with time because you've, you've got to really prioritize making sure that I make it home in time and then reprioritizing things so that I'm able to take care of what's very important.

[00:19:23] So this whole piece about reprioritizing life and reprioritizing time just forces you into a situation where you become even more efficient with time. But I have to say kudos to you, Remko, because you've been very, very involved as an equal partner here. 

[00:19:38] Remko G: Thank you. Yeah, definitely. I really wanted to be involved as well.

[00:19:41] And I even remember when Sue mentioned Chief Diaper Officer, I actually used to have CDO at the end of my LinkedIn profile as well. I took it away. I don't think I'm the Chief diaper officer anymore. I think shifted over time, but yeah. Thank you.

[00:19:53] Vanessa I: You have written on your profile Remko, uh, if I'm not wrong, proud father instead.

[00:19:58] Remko G: Proud father is still there. Yeah, exactly. Instead of CDO. 

[00:20:01] Vanessa I: Yes, this is good. This is very good for you to write that. One of the things that is important for us as HR practitioners is the reintegration into the workplace. And we are trying our very best with Vanessa T to actually think ahead of the game, because we usually know when the mummy's back about the reintegration, and we do the same for the father.

[00:20:21] We wanted to learn and to hear from you about your experience, and if you have any suggestions to people like us making it even better. 

[00:20:29] Remko G: Yeah. So it's just thinking about actually connecting to what I just mentioned, like going back, it's like quite a struggle, right? Way to sleep, et cetera. Not being there. 

[00:20:36] At LinkedIn, we actually have different guidelines available for us. We can actually go to our SharePoint somewhere and there's a lot of tips and hints in terms of for the manager to use for your employee, but also as your manager for, you know, returning employees both ways of employees. So it kind of creates that a culture of, you know, understanding a little bit because it's like some of these tips written in these guidelines that really help, also helps for me, I think that my team went through the same.

[00:21:02] So returning back to work, I think there was a lot of understanding in that sense. That was good. Secondly, I want to say we also have our employee resource group called families at LinkedIn. So with that group, we have like a WhatsApp group and some other activities. So if you have any questions, are you struggling with something you can, you know, connect with somebody to speak, it could be little things like, Oh my God, my baby has maybe some kind of rash or whatever it might be to like, Hey, how are you actually dealing with the sleep?

[00:21:31] And how do you get all your work done? There could be many questions in a sense. And so that's been super, super helpful from that angle. And I also got a coach to my availability when I was integrating at work, which I was very happy about and was super useful. Yeah. I think the main things, as I mentioned before, I had to work through is.

[00:21:48] Giving myself compassion and not getting everything like immediately and making those connections because of sleep deprivation, it's working and learning. What is your priority, right? Because you don't got it right immediately. I think it's something you have to work through and start realizing what your priorities are.

[00:22:05] And then you make that happen according to your own wishes. Yeah. Those are the two points I would say that really had to shift the work around to make me help come back. Anything for you Sue to add to this. 

[00:22:14] Sue S: Yes, so for me, when I think about this topic, I think about it in operational sense and emotional sense.

[00:22:21] I think different companies are in different stages and it's quite obvious that LinkedIn is quite far progressed with all the resources available. So operationally, I think anything to help reduce anxiety around a checklist for the employee, so the individual returning being mommy or daddy. Like, dads had met I'd get four months off, so they would have been out quite some time as well.

[00:22:43] So operationally, like, for example, when I went back, I had to figure out how to get access to the nursing room. I found it such an awkward question to go and ask an uncle, like, uncle, how do I get access to this room? We both looked at each other awkwardly. So operationally, I think there's things you can do with like sending people emails and say, hey, check these things out, the time's coming up.

[00:23:06] But I think emotionally is the bit where it's probably more challenging because how to broach this conversation around what is obviously going to be a very interesting, challenging time for people to transition, possibly for the mommy, because there's this anxiety of leaving your baby after so much time together.

[00:23:25] My manager was amazing and I'd say he was amazing even more so because he's not a dad himself at present. But he was so compassionate in knowing that I don't know what you're going through, but I know you need to have someone to talk about the things that you need to talk about right now. So I found this person who just came from mat leave and she's happy to have coffee with you.

[00:23:48] So I thought that was just so brilliant that he acknowledged that need for discussing the more emotional side of what it feels. And then having that support at work available. 

[00:23:59] Vanessa I: Well, I remember as well, my first pregnancy and when I came back and my boss and the way he welcomed me back and the way he supported me and, uh, he was very, very kind and compassionate to me.

[00:24:12] And as you shared, he might not have understood everything that was going on in my body or in my head, but he was very attentive to my needs. So I felt very comfortable to share about what was going on and to laugh about it as well, which is sometimes very helpful when, you know, you have a bit of a difficulty with something.

[00:24:34] And still today, I still remember him, you know, making sure that I always eat properly because I needed to have enough food in my body to do a good job with breastfeeding. So I remember him always, you know, giving me a sandwich and he was someone who liked eating a lot. So when he was giving me his sandwich, uh, I felt it was the biggest gift I could receive.

[00:24:56] There is one sandwich is for you because you need it more than me. So it's a long time ago now, it's 12 years ago, but when I think about it, I, I can still remember his smile and my smile and it was the idea that yes, he was here for me and he was ready to listen to anything and, uh, I didn't use it a lot because, you know, we had our own different personal lives, but the fact that he was there was a big deal. 

[00:25:21] Sue S: Did you ever tell him that you felt this way?

[00:25:24] Vanessa I: I did, I did. Actually, I, I went back to visit him just after COVID. I went back to, he's still a colleague of mine, but we don't work in the same organization. And I went back to visit him and I said to him, how are you?

[00:25:37] You know, this little girl that you, you were so eager to see growing, um, you know, she's here and this is her picture. And I'm still so grateful for all the things you did for me. So yeah, I did, I did actually. And I think that it was a message that was important for me to bring to him. 

[00:25:54] Vanessa T: The role of leaders and managers, it's such an important role that as an organization, as a leader, or as a colleague, that we can all come together to really help in the transition of new parents.

[00:26:06] And I think it's such an important role that the entire ecosystem really plays. And so I think as organizations, as leaders putting time and effort into really considering how we help individuals to transition into this new stage in life can really result in a greater level of engagement, a greater level of commitment, and ultimately work performance at the workplace.

[00:26:28] You've all talked about support that you've received. And so we've all heard the saying that it takes a village to raise a child. Can you share a bit more about this village that you guys have? Tell us more about the village that supports you. 

[00:26:42] Sue S: Yes, happy to kick off. I think starting with our family away from home, I think of our Singaporean family who perhaps are our family, but not by blood.

[00:26:56] And particularly for us, that's Mike and Jasmine. Jasmine has been a nurse for like 40 years at Mount E and like she's delivered a ton of babies. So in a time that my mom wasn't able to travel to Singapore because the restrictions were still there, like she would literally come to our house and, and like check my wound and how I was recovering and Logan.

[00:27:17] So. That was just something that is just, I'll, I'll never forget that cause I was very vulnerable at that time and they're a very important part of our life here locally. Then beyond that, none of this I don't think would have been possible if it wasn't for obviously the partnership that Remko and I have, supported by our nanny Marlene.

[00:27:37] Like the woman's raised four children and she's here with us and has been in Singapore for 20 years. And me kind of driving to INSEAD or whatever I was doing, traveling with me for business trips, like such an important individual in our life. And we operate our schedule to give you an idea, we have a joint Google calendar, or at least we share details where we've agreed in a taxonomy to say like, this is an appointment for Remko, this is for Logan, this is for all of us.

[00:28:07] And then she'll, like, know what's happening and, like, organize everything around that for us so we don't have to think about that, which has been very, very helpful. So she'll send us a reminder. Soon, Remko, Logan's homework is due on the 25th of August and we're like, Oh my goodness, what was her homework?

[00:28:22] We totally missed that message. So little practical things like that. And Logan does go to daycare, so it's obviously all the teachers that are there as well. And then I just wanted to comment on my friends who are friends who happen to be moms. Because what I found was that different communities, so when I was on mat leave, I would go to these groups where different women who are on mat leave would come together and share, Oh, how many diapers of this?

[00:28:48] And so that's community, which is not necessarily friendship, which at that early days, I think you need to kind of feel validated because you're not quite sure what you're doing. But what I found later on was I got so much value and connection from my friends who were a little bit further ahead than where I was.

[00:29:06] So I had the benefit of hindsight because their season was different. So, and they could just share kind of how they do it in terms of their, their travel schedule and their date nights and whatnot. So I got a lot of value from, from my friends who have a career and we're friends first and foremost, and they happen to be mummies.

[00:29:24] Remko G: Just to add to that. I think we also have a few friends locally in our condo, but as well, like in Singapore, a few friends that we really trust well, we trust Logan with them. So whenever this emergency kind of thing and our calendars don't work out, or one of us is traveling maybe for work or personal reasons, they can actually just take care of Logan as well.

[00:29:44] Logan had spent the night, I think recently for the first time, for example, by herself at a friend's place. So we do have a few of those friends, which we are extremely grateful for that we have that with our family not being here in Singapore. 

[00:29:56] Vanessa T: This community of support is so important. Because you can't be everything to Logan and having a community of support around you can really help in so many different ways.

[00:30:07] So really glad to hear that you guys have a strong community of support. 

[00:30:11] Vanessa I: So we wanted to also ask you about your, your haha moments. And we wanted to know if there is one thing that you have learned in this journey. that you wish you knew before you started the journey because, you know, some of the people who are listening to the podcast might be themselves at the beginning of the journey.

[00:30:30] So what could be the thing you would like to share with them? 

[00:30:33] Sue S: You know, I want to share some wisdom from my gyne. I think this one is just amazing. Canadian, been in Singapore 45 years and just, So much hindsight, right? And she said, you know, the thing with you older mummies, because apparently I was a geriatric mom, you get like really good at your careers and your jobs, and then you become a mom and then you're like, Oh my goodness.

[00:30:56] I have no idea what I'm doing. And it's like harder. I think what I got from her sharing was that somehow you'll work it out. So I am, I had definitely have perfectionistic tendencies and I like scheduling and planning. So it was obviously me who proposed that calendar I mentioned earlier, right? So I have these kinds of tendencies and what I've learned is that there is literally nothing that prepares you.

[00:31:21] And at the same time that somehow it will work out. And it's probably going to be through a lot of trial and error, but what works for one family or one mommy and daddy might not be right for a different one. So you just kind of go on your journey of figuring out what's right and don't have to be very pedantic about it looking a certain way.

[00:31:42] I think before baby, before becoming a mom, I had this very idealistic view of how things were going to go and it was all going to be so smooth. It just is not like that. It just isn't. 

[00:31:53] Remko G: One thing I would say, screen time, right? Like when we weren't parents, we thought like, Oh no, our kid can't do any screen time.

[00:32:00] It's not allowed. Now we don't want this. But then Sunday morning you have these times. I do the morning shift. I'm like, okay, you can watch baby shark. I don't care. You can watch what you want. I just want to rest, for example. That's definitely one thing if I, you know, I would say don't judge other parents, right?

[00:32:15] You don't know where they're going through at the moment. But also another thing I would say is more from a wisdom kind of side of things is that, you know, it's not only about your kid and it's very important how you as a couple interact together. And I think your kid will learn more from how you interact as a couple than anything else.

[00:32:32] Right. They copy everything. So really make sure you prioritize couple time as well and make a good agreements amongst each other. 

[00:32:39] Vanessa I: Yeah, that's very important point to keep actually the couple in check and making sure that we continue to be two sometimes and not always three or four. That's a very, very important reminder.

[00:32:51] We are all work in progress as working parents and some days we make it up as we go. Personally, what I've learned is no matter what happens, I become a better human being. So I try to learn from my mistakes and look at the brighter side. What about you, Vanessa T? I mean, what have you learned from this extraordinary experience of being a mummy?

[00:33:12] Vanessa T: What I've learned is being patient with neurodiverse children, because I have two boys who are neurodiverse. They both have dyslexia. And so for me, it's understanding how they both learn, how they both see the world, and how they both discover their own superpowers. And so for me, it's not about comparing with how other children learn and how other children are, but it's being comfortable in providing the right learning environment for them so that ultimately they're going to be able to, to discover their own superpower and, and thrive in the world.

[00:33:46] Vanessa I: Okay. It's great to listen to different experiences and I'm reflecting while I'm listening to you. And I, I thank you from the bottom of my heart for being vulnerable and open to sharing all this experience. If there is one learning that you got, what would it be? What would you like to share? 

[00:34:04] Sue S: You know, it's very difficult to boil it to just one because there's so many, but I think the one that sticks for me is how much Logan is a teacher to me, because I know that if I'm anxious a day or I'm trying to rush her because I'm going somewhere that she will pick it up, or if I'm trying to be controlling because I want things to go in a certain way.

[00:34:27] That she will just resist and really push back. And in that, that actually teaches me a lot about myself, but also as a parent. I think that that would be my one thing, which is your child is actually your teacher also. 

[00:34:43] Remko G: Yeah. Beautiful. This is a very difficult, right? There's so many takeaways, but communication, I would say, right?

[00:34:49] As couple at work. With your family, they might have different expectations, right? We haven't spoken about extended family, et cetera, but that could be the whole different story as well. I've got communication is really, really important and I'm sneaking in a second one. I think priorities, as I mentioned before, like, you know, making sure you choose the priorities that you want to choose for, but just be intentional with those priorities and understand the impact of that as well.

[00:35:13] Vanessa T: Fantastic. Well, Sue and Remko, thank you so much to the two of you for joining us today on the Career Transitions Podcast. It's really been such a pleasure learning from the two of you and what a great conversation the two of you have brought to the table. You've given us such an authentic view into your lives as working parents.

[00:35:32] And I discovered more about my partner today too, Vanessa I, and about your transition, Vanessa, into motherhood. 

[00:35:39] Vanessa I: Oh, there is so much to share. We need to get a coffee again together. And for many of you who are listening to today's episode, we will actually put some useful resources into the show notes.

[00:35:50] So please pay attention to the show notes if there is a book or something that you need to look at. And thank you so much, Sue and Remko, for sharing your experience. It was fantastic. We wish you the best. To the three of you together with Logan to have a beautiful continuation of your journey in Singapore.

[00:36:08] Thank you everyone. 

[00:36:09] Sue S: Thank you. 

[00:36:10] Remko G: Thank you so much.