New Leader Transitions with Vanessa Teo and Iloste I S2 Ep4

On this episode, Vanessa Iloste and Vanessa Teo respond to some of the questions we’ve received from our listeners! 

One of the important transitions that all professionals make is when we move into new roles. Whether you are moving to a business, organization, team, or taking on new leadership position, planning your transition matters!  

Understanding your context, and planning your assimilation into this new environment is paramount to your success.  

In this episode, we share our experiences on how successful individuals transition into new leadership roles.  

1.     How do you effectively set yourself up for success in the first 90 days?

2.     What are the must-wins of this new role? 

3.     Who are your key stakeholders and how do you prioritize these relationships? 

4.     How do we address imposter syndrome? 

5.     And how do you find a mentor who can help you along the way? 

 Recommended readings: 

·         First 90 days by Michael Watkins

·         Five Benefits of Embedding New Leader Assimilation into Your Company Culture

·         Stop Telling Women They Have Imposter Syndrome  

Connect with us on LinkedIn:

· Vanessa Iloste (Host)

· Vanessa Teo (Host)

· Aaron Wu (Producer)

Transcript

Vanessa I: [00:00:00] Hi, everyone. Welcome to our new episode of Career Transition. We are your hosts, Vanessa Iloste and Vanessa Teo. 

Vanessa T: Hey Vanessa I, can you believe that we're already midway through season two? We've received many questions, comments, and feedback from our listeners, and we appreciate them all. 

Vanessa I: Yes, indeed.

We're so happy to have so much engagement with our podcast. And today we would like to take some time to respond to some of your questions with our thoughts. Let's take a look at some of the questions from our listener, Vanessa. 

Vanessa T: Yeah. So Vanessa, I, one of the questions that we often get is about leadership transition, new leader transition.

And so I have the first question to ask you, and this is a question that we've heard a number of times about transitioning into a new role. So, the question being, I'm very new to a new team and to the business, [00:01:00] and I'm not quite sure if I'm up to it. So, what kind of advice would you give to me in terms of making a transition to this role?

So Vanessa I can I ask you, if you were to reflect on your move, can you share with us, you know, a transition that you've made that you would consider as a big move? 

Vanessa I: Yeah, I remember a big transition that I made just before I turned 30 years old and it was actually becoming a, an HR director for a team.

And it was the first time I was actually in charge as a generalist. I remember that time because before I had had a cooperative experience in which I had been successful, but it was more project related and it was more functionally related. Uh, and all of a sudden I was given the full fledged responsibility of human resources and training, and I found it quite daunting, and I felt like, you know, it was a new chapter of my career.

So yes, I [00:02:00] still remember the butterflies in my stomach. 

Vanessa T: Yes, indeed. I think many of us, as you transition into different roles, whether it's a leadership role, whether it's a role in a completely new team, we all experience some of those butterflies in our stomach. And I, I can certainly appreciate that.

Let's talk about some practical aspects about transitioning and how we can help cope with some of those butterflies in our tummies. So the first 90 days is a really crucial time for any sort of career transition. And I often advise leaders as they go through transitions to consider the what, the who, the when, and the how as they go through crucial transitions like this.

So let's start first with the what. As you're thinking about transitioning into your new role, really setting the clear expectations. Understand first your role, your responsibilities, be really clear on performance expectations. Establish clear and achievable goals is what I always tell [00:03:00] people, you know, don't in your first 90 days, although you may know what you would like to achieve, but give yourself that shorter term goal that you like to accomplish in your first 30, 60 and 90 days so that it allows you to stay focused, stay motivated with smaller wins.

And once you get those smaller wins, then you build up to those bigger wins. 

Vanessa I: Can it be for instance, Vanessa T, something as simple as, in the first 30 days, I will know everyone in my team? 

Vanessa T: Yeah, yeah, absolutely. The first 30 days, knowing everyone in your team. Maybe the next 60 days, I will get to know the function.

And maybe in the next 90 days, I'll get to know more people within my global team. So it's pacing yourself and that's going to look different for everyone. But our advice is to take the time to understand your team. Very importantly, take time to also observe the culture in your [00:04:00]organization because cultures are built over time.

And you've got to recognize that as someone new coming into that culture, whether it's a new team culture or organizational culture, it is important for you to respect, understand, observe the culture and the values and then recognize how you go about value adding to that culture. 

Vanessa I: Very interesting. Yes.

It requires a little bit of observation, I guess, if you want to understand how you're going to value add to the culture, you need to first observe very carefully what is happening in this culture. 

Vanessa T: Yeah. In order for you to be successful, you first have to start with observation, really spending time listening, observing, and very importantly, understanding as a result of that what you want to accomplish in the next 30, 60, and 90 days.

The next one that I would like to talk about is about the who. So understand who your key stakeholders are. I would recommend to leaders to draw a stakeholder map. So [00:05:00] mapping out some of your important and strategic relationships that you want to prioritize in those 90 days. So your manager, your cross functional partners, your colleagues, and if you work in a multicultural environment, understanding who you're going to prioritize in a cross border relationship, who are those that you're going to want to meet in the 30, 60, and 90 days?

Because relationships are crucial to your success. I've witnessed many individuals who may be really strong experts technically in their field but could use some help with establishing strong relationships so that they can be even more successful. So never ever underestimate the importance of those crucial relationships.

What would you say to that, Vanessa? 

Vanessa I: I totally agree, Vanessa T. You know, building trust is something that takes time. And uh, usually our first reaction when we start interacting with someone is, uh, we have some curiosity, sometimes we have some assumptions, sometimes we have [00:06:00] some, uh, confusion or misunderstanding about their agenda. 

So, getting the relationship right is something that is not going to happen overnight. And sometimes I'm very surprised that people believe that because they had a check in with someone or an introduction meeting with someone, they feel that it's okay, it's in the pocket. It's, it's not the case. This is something that maybe is going to take a three months, six months to build, and you might have to identify some of the areas where you can be very different or you can be also very complimentary.

So investing in this is really, really critical to your success, as you say. 

Vanessa T: Yeah, I agree. I remember transitioning into a new role where someone on a different team was a really, really important partner. And, you know, approaching that relationship with a sense of humility, I think is really important.

Because I recognize I may not have the expertise in the cross functional team, I need to be able to build a strong [00:07:00] relationship with my partner so that ultimately I'll be able to be of value to them and they'll be able to help me as I get on board with the new role. So really ensuring that you're building that sense of trust.

And relationships is really going to help you longer term. So the third W is the when. When I talk about when, I'm talking about giving yourself a goal with your timeline. Not everything needs to happen yesterday or today. And we oftentimes see when leaders are into new roles, there's, you know, we all enter gangbusters.

You were hired into the role because you do really, really well at your job. When you're in a new role, allow yourself the time to observe, like we said earlier, but then also recognize that not everything needs to be done yesterday. So prioritize your goals over the next 30, 60, and 90 days, and really craft out what you want to accomplish in those timelines.

And I would be open in communicating that too with your key [00:08:00] stakeholders. So that they understand what is most important to you and can also help you in, in the 30, 60, 90 days timeline to help you with the tasks that you'll need in order to be successful. Vanessa, what do you think about that?

Vanessa I: I totally agree with you, Vanessa T.

I found that actually journaling is very useful and using the journaling of your first 30, 60, 90 days to produce a couple of one pagers and share this one pager with your colleagues. It can be a very, very good exercise. Some people, they're very scared of doing that because they feel like whatever you have written on this one pager roadmap can be actually understood as black and white and that people are going to come back to you in three months or in six months or in one year saying, what have you done?

Have you done this? Have you done that? I think that people are much more compassionate than that. Most of them, they will not, you know, use things against you, but they will [00:09:00] use this type of document as an opportunity for a conversation or a dialogue. And in order to avoid being off track, having this conversation around, you know, a one pager roadmap can be really, really useful because some colleagues can give you the feedback.

Yes, that's true. You're right. This is an initiative or this is an area that it would be great for you to consider. But right now we are, for instance, at the foundation stage. So what you're proposing is nice to have, it's not compulsory. And then when you hear, you know, this type of conversation around what is for them mandatory, compulsory versus what is nice to have, it helps you to shape your roadmap and to make it more effective for your success.

Vanessa T: I love that. I love how you talk about journaling and then putting those thoughts down and sharing it with people because ultimately our success is not going to be just based on our own work, but we're going to need the collective team around us in order to be [00:10:00] successful. So I love that. So we've talked about the what, the who, and the when.

So let's talk about the final alphabet, which is H, the how. The behaviors, and that's, that piece is going to be really important. How you go about exhibiting behaviors in the first 90 days and through your transition is crucial. And I think it's really important that we give our, whether it's our new team or the new organization, signals that you're leaning into this new organization and this new environment.

So, being engaged. Being excited about this new space, having that growth mindset as you observe the space, and then as you think through about all the new things that you have to learn, approaching it with a positive and, and a growth mindset is going to be really helpful in getting you into that mind space of learning new things and recognizing too that you may not get everything right at the first step, but you're going to have to learn as you go along.[00:11:00]

Vanessa, what do you think about that?

Vanessa I: I really think it's very important because the way you are going to interact with other consciously or unconsciously is going to be very, very important. And the signals, as you say, you are giving are going to be really, really perceived very strongly by the people around you.

So one of the analogy I like very much is the analogy of the disco. Yes, disco. Yeah. I've not been to a disco club for many years, but, uh, I remember my younger years and I remember going into these places and, and, you know, at the beginning when you have never been to a disco or a club, people are dancing and they are having fun and they are really, really into the groove of the music and you are a little bit inadequate.

You're a little bit clumsy. You might not know that particular music or the move that they are doing. But when you are smiling to people, when you are showing that you are happy to be with them, and that you really want to try, [00:12:00] even if you are not doing the good moves at the beginning, people welcome you into the circle, and they want you to dance with them.

Even with their hands and their arms, they give you this signal that, please come in and dance with us. I think you want to try to replicate the same type of things inside an organization. And as you mentioned, culture is very, very hard to decipher. It takes sometimes one year, two years to really get to the core of that culture, to understand it from within.

But if you give the signals that you want to be part of it, I think your chances of being accepted. And feeling a sense of belonging is much bigger than if you stay on the periphery of the club and you feel a little bit like, what are these people doing dancing crazily in the middle of the club?

Vanessa T: I love that analogy.

This, this analogy of being on the dance floor and joining in the dance and learning all the moves is an [00:13:00] excellent analogy of joining a new organization or team or business. So I love that analogy. Vanessa, we, we should go dancing one of these days, yeah? 

Vanessa I: Oh yes, especially in Singapore. I've heard that they have reopened some of the very famous clubs I used to go many, many years ago.

So the two of us, yes, let's go together. That would be funny.

Vanessa T: Yes, it would. It would. So, there's a really great book out there that I think our listeners will benefit a great deal from and it's a, it's a book called The First 90 Days by Michael Watkins. We highly recommend that book as you look at transitioning into new roles.

It's a book that has influenced both Vanessa I and I, Vanessa T, as we've gone through our own transition. So we highly recommend that book. Now, many people enter new roles and sometimes you feel like you're not really up to it. You think that the role is bigger than you. Have you experienced that before?

Vanessa I? 

Vanessa I: Yes, I was telling you about this job that I took [00:14:00] as a HR director, and I remember the day I met my new leader, my new business leader. It was in Shanghai, it was in May, and I still remember the name of the hotel where we met together, and I remember pushing the door of the hotel and thinking.

What if this person doesn't want to work with me? What if he, he says that, you know, he needs someone much more senior than I am today? What if he feels like I'm lacking some experience? And I entered the meeting very worried, very anxious, and I was very lucky because I got to meet someone who was a very good human being, and he was ready to give me a chance.

He was also ready to acknowledge his own shortcomings. And he said to me, you are learning about being an HR director. I'm learning about this new region. I've never been in China before. So he put us on the same level, the two of us. And he gave me permission to try. And he gave me a lot of psychological safety.

[00:15:00] And I think the beginning of that chapter of my career. It was very exciting because I really felt understood and heard and supported. I've tried many new things, sometimes I've failed, but it was an environment that was really a growth environment and, uh, I totally relate to people when they say, you know, there is this imposter syndrome because it's very, very natural.

And if you are honest with yourself, you know for a fact when you enter a new role, that you are not ready yet to be 100 percent productive for the new organization. 

Vanessa T: So in that time when you experienced that, did you feel like you were an imposter? 

Vanessa I: Yes, in that particular hotel, I felt like I was an imposter.

I felt like this person who is going to, you know, spend one hour, one hour and a half with me is maybe. Going to waste some of his time. This is what I was thinking, you know, and I was thinking maybe he's going to be disappointed in the choice that [00:16:00] was made because I was not his choice. I mean, I was, uh, appointed in the role before he was appointed, and I was very scared of his reaction of seeing in his eyes the disappointment, oh, I wish I could have hired someone else.

But fortunately this didn't happen because of his humility, because of his willingness to learn together. I didn't have this realization and then step by step I managed to bring myself back into confidence and that is something that I'm very happy I managed to bring myself back into confidence at that time.

Excellent. 

Vanessa T: So Vanessa, do you have any advice for people when we sometimes feel like we're an imposter? What advice would you give? 

Vanessa I: So my advice is very simple. I would say take one day at a time. It might feel very simple but it's very important not to overwhelm yourself with too much pressure on your shoulders.

So being able to go through one day and the first week and the [00:17:00] first month and congratulating you for this type of achievement, small wins, is very, very important. So I think sometimes people are too much focused on the midterm or the long term. I would like to achieve these big plans. I want to have a vision very fast.

It's almost impossible to have a vision if you don't have a good understanding of the context you're in. And understanding the context will take you a good three to six months to be very honest. So sometimes, you know, pushing yourself, giving yourself pressure on the vision side of things or the, the strategic side of thing is actually not a good idea.

It's better to identify the quick wins, things that are very much like within your reach. And these are the quick wins that people will take as a recognition of your ability. So they will see you doing something that is very simple, but they are going to say, Oh, actually, this person has helped me, you know, so [00:18:00] they, they give you a request and for them it's important because it's something that is bothering you in their lives for you.

It's something very simple to do. But you go back to them with an answer, with a solution, and you solve their issue. And all of a sudden you grow your trust level in terms of credibility. So I would say if you focus on these small wins, quick wins, that would be very, very helpful. Then there is something as well that I like very much, which I use very often.

There are as many quick wins, there are quick lose, and what I call the quick lose are some big mistakes that can be made at the very beginning of your tenure that can have actually a very big impact on the people with whom you are working with. So sometimes people want to demonstrate their authority, they are going to be a little bit harsher or a little bit stricter than what is needed.

And people are going to take it as a [00:19:00] show of abuse or power, and they are not going to give in, they are not going to be ready to help you or to support you. So be very, very aware of the quick wins, but also of the quick lose. And when you see a quick lose opportunity, try to avoid it as much as you can.

Vanessa T: I love that. I love your quick wins and your quick loses. And this goes back also to what we were talking about earlier about that 30, 60 and 90 days. I love how you talked about, you know, you may have a big dream. But really giving it some time so that you're observing and understanding the context in the first 30, 60, 90 days.

And then maybe at that point, communicating what your bigger vision could be. And who knows, it might change in the 30, 60, 90 days after you have observed the context of the organization. So I love that, what you've just said. I think it's about going slow in order to go far.

Vanessa I: Extremely true. Very, very important.

Vanessa T: So Vanessa, I, [00:20:00] let's talk about the next question that we have. So we've received another question about how do I find a trusted mentor? What would you say to that? 

Vanessa I: Well, that's a very big question and that's a very, very important question. I mean, a mentor is someone very, very precious in career transition and sometimes it's not one, it's two or three mentors that you need to have around you in order to help you to go through this career transition.

So if I... Take the same example that I was sharing with you. When I was actually becoming a full fledged HR director, I was part of a community of HR professional, and I decided to tap into their knowledge because these were ladies with sometimes 20, 25 years more experience than me. So I decided to ask two or three of them to have a monthly regular catch up with me.

And they were very, very kind and compassionate with me, and they decided to do that journey with me. So I found this very, very useful because I came to [00:21:00] them for coffee on a monthly basis. I didn't bother them while they were busy, but during this one hour, one hour and a half, I had prepared a couple of questions.

The ones where I was struggling the most and the ones for which I needed some perspective, some experience, some exposure. So... I found this a very, very important part of my transition and I'm still very grateful to all these ladies in Hong Kong who helped me a lot. I want to say thank you to them today.

Vanessa T: The interesting thing about mentoring and what you just talked about is leveraging your mentors both internally as well as externally. So internally, it is important to find someone who can help you to navigate within the internal networks of your organization. Particularly as you enter into a new role, having that internal mentor who can help you to tell you, you know, guide you where to go to seek for your answers, who to speak with to get those responses, that can be really helpful when you have an internal mentor who is able [00:22:00] to help you to navigate through that internal network, which can be pretty complex in some organizations.

So having an internal mentor can be really helpful. But it's also important to have that external mentor like what Vanessa mentioned about the HR club in Hong Kong because the HR club and external networks can provide you with some of that expertise on the external front, um, help you to navigate when you may need answers that may not be available internally.

So I do encourage people to look both internally and externally to really build that network. Vanessa I, you often talked about a really strong mentor that you've had, and I was wondering if you could share with our listeners how you've leveraged on your mentor in your journey. 

Vanessa I: Yes, so there is a mentor that I am still in touch with today, and I think that this person has been really important in my career.

So this is a person that I make a point to have a dinner or a lunch or a conversation in case we are [00:23:00] overseas to talk to. That person, you know, has nothing to do with what I do today, but this is a person who is very good at giving me guidance and also highlighting, you know, some differences compared to the last conversation we had a year before or six months before.

And I think that for me, this is like a lighthouse when I'm struggling a lot. I think of that person. Sometimes I don't bother the person, but I say, what would that person has done in this situation? That gives me a lot of comfort, a lot of insights. Sometimes I get some ideas from that question. Just the fact of reaching out sometimes and saying, I'm thinking of you.

I hope that everything is okay with you. I've thought about your skill sets on one or another area is also a good way for me to keep the connection. So I think that this is a gift in life to have these people who are like a guardian angel to us. And we should cultivate this relationship. We should really make a [00:24:00] point to cultivate them over and over the years.

Otherwise, sometimes we feel very lonely. So yeah, I think it's very important to have this mentorship in place. 

Vanessa T: It is, especially if you leave an organization or leave a team. I would also say to keep that relationship with the mentor because the mentor's advice can continue and that relationship can continue even after you've taken on a different role.

Vanessa I: Exactly. Usually people take this very seriously. I personally take it very seriously. I have a couple of mentees. They know they can rely on me. If, you know, they reach out and they need help, I take it very seriously. And I found that when you have a mentor, this person will be very responsible about their role and they will really, really show up in your life at moments where you need them the most.

So I encourage everyone to take this type of relationship very seriously on both sides. And I think it's something that we should encourage our audience to think about, to reflect on. Do you have a mentor? Is that mentor a [00:25:00] person with whom you have recently, uh, interacted with? Is it a person you want to interact with again?

Is it a person you want to send a message today and say thank you so much for being such a mentor to me? Because just sending this type of message is a very, very powerful gesture and is going to nurture the relationship. And for the people who do not have a mentor yet to think and to have this conversation with someone they're really inspired by and to ask, you know, Would you like to be my mentor?

Because otherwise we are going to assume that someone is a mentor and this person is not. So this is my recommendation to all our audience today. Fantastic. 

Vanessa T: Well, thank you all for your questions. This is all the time that we have for this round of questions, but we really do encourage everyone to continue to send in.

Your questions and comments to us. We hope that this episode has given you some really good food for thought as you consider your own individual career journey. 

Vanessa I: I really enjoyed this episode, Vanessa T. I think we should do it more often. Uh, [00:26:00]it's a great opportunity also for us to understand more about what is needed the most for the next episode.

So we are also learning from it and we are very thankful to our listeners. I look forward to having everyone on the show again. Talk to you soon!