Stepping Out of Your Comfort Zone with Kenneth Chan I S2 E1

This episode, Vanessa I and Vanessa T speak with Kenneth Chan, former McDonalds China Chief Executive Officer. Kenneth is a seasoned CEO and organizational leader with over 30 years of leadership experience.

Kenneth was McDonald’s Chief Executive Officer for China and Division President for the Greater China region between 2009 to 2015. More recently from 2016 to 2021, Kenneth served as an equity and operating partner for McDonald’s Singapore and Malaysia, and the Managing Director of McDonald’s Singapore.

Kenneth shares his views about what it means to step out of our comfort zones to take on new, exciting, and uncomfortable challenges. He describes himself as a reluctant leader, but how he benefited from helpful nudges from trusted mentors and leaders. He discusses how taking various challenging assignments gave him the valuable experience and exposure to lead through the COVID pandemic. 

We were inspired to speak with Kenneth and learn how his diverse experiences, leadership humility and focus on people helped him navigate through various business and career transitions.  

Recommended readings: 

·   Asians in Charge- Kenneth Chan
·   Commentary: Are Singaporeans losing their competitive edge by staying within their comfort zones? – Kenneth Chan
·  Outstanding Chief/ Senior Executive (Overseas) Award, Kenneth Chan 

Connect with us on LinkedIn:

· Vanessa Iloste (Host)

· Vanessa Teo (Host)

· Aaron Wu (Producer)

Transcript

[00:00:00] Vanessa T: Hello, everyone. Welcome back to the Career Transitions Podcast Season 2. We hope that you enjoyed the seven episodes from Season 1. We received a lot of positive feedback from all of you.

[00:00:18] Vanessa I: And thank goodness, Vanessa, we are still friends. So we decided to do another season. Today we welcome to our show Kenneth Chan, former Chief Executive Officer for McDonald's China.

He will share what it takes to step out of his comfort zone to take on stretching assignment in order to transition to more senior roles. He will also speak about his experience in managing crisis like the COVID 19 pandemic. 

[00:00:49] Vanessa T: We thought it would be really interesting to bring him onto the show as he will share his perspective about Asian talents taking a bigger space on the global leadership stage.

His book Asians in Charge was an inspiration to both of us and we wanted to share his wisdom with everyone. We hope you enjoy this next episode.

Hi everyone. Welcome to our new episode of Career Transitions. We're your hosts, Vanessa Iloste and Vanessa Teo. 

[00:01:23] Vanessa I: Today, we are excited and privileged to introduce our new guest, Kenneth Chan, a seasoned CEO and organizational leader with over 30 years of hands on experience in Fortune 500 consumer and retail multinational companies such as McDonald's, PepsiCo, Procter and Gamble and Singapore Airlines. 

[00:01:45] Vanessa T: Welcome to our show, Kenneth. 

[00:01:47] Kenneth C: Hi, Vanessa. Congrats on your podcast, by the way. 

[00:01:50] Vanessa T: Oh, thank you. Welcome Kenneth. And it's so great for us to have you here with us on our show. Let me introduce you to our audience. Kenneth was McDonald's Chief Executive Officer for China and Division President for Greater China Region between 2009 to 2015.

He led an organization of 150, 000 employees and oversaw the fastest period of expansion at its time and more importantly, laid a strong foundation that has paved the way for continued sustainable growth. More recently, from 2016 to 2021, Kenneth served as the equity and operating partner for McDonald's Singapore and Malaysia and managing director of McDonald's Singapore.

Kenneth had previously also led McDonald's Singapore business prior to China as its managing director between 2004 to 2008, while having simultaneous regional responsibilities for Korea, Taiwan, and Malaysia. In his time in Singapore, McDonald's was also recognized as Hewitt Best Employer three consecutive times, and Kenneth led this winning local organization.

In achieving record revenue, profit, and share growth since it's 20 year of business inception. Congratulations on an outstanding portfolio of achievements, Kenneth. It's so great to have you here with us. 

[00:03:15] Kenneth C: Thanks, Vanessa. 

[00:03:16] Vanessa I: We first got to know Kenneth from the commentary he wrote for Channel News Asia and the article that was called, Are Singaporeans losing their competitive edge by staying within their comfort zone?

And I still remember that day when Vanessa and I, we saw that article and we got puzzled by it. As HR professionals, we feel very much interested in this kind of topic. So we reached out to Kenneth for a conversation and he immediately answered and agreed to be with us today to discuss the topic about stepping out of comfort zone in career transition.

[00:03:53] Vanessa T: So Kenneth, you've made some really impressive career moves, moving from different countries and functions in the business, in restaurant operations, HR, supply chain, real estate, finance, and each time you've taken on increasingly complex roles. Now, which of these transitions would you consider as being significant in your journey?

[00:04:16] Kenneth C: Well, thanks again for having me on your show. Thanks for that introduction as well. And I would say that I am extremely grateful for having had a fulfilling career and I hope there are more adventures to come as well. But you know, I was fortunate at the same time to have worked in some of those great companies that you've talked about.

And the bulk of my time, of course, and my last stint was mainly in McDonald's. And I say to everybody, all I do is I flip hamburgers for a living. So I learned a lot in all my stints and hopefully gave back as much as in return as well. Just talking about transitions, I just want to talk a little bit about the history of what I did.

I kind of started my journey in marketing and then over time evolved to be more of a business leader and then a larger enterprise leader. And I would say that while I've worked hard and put myself in position to succeed in these roles, I've also had a lot of good luck. And many people along the way who have clearly lent me a helping hand.

You know, the funny thing about my career would be, I am a reluctant leader. I consider myself to be a very reluctant leader. If you had told me when I first joined McDonald's, for example, as an assistant marketing manager, that one day I would be the managing director of Singapore, and then let alone later on the chief executive of China, and then later an operating partner, you know, of a franchise business, I would have said, you guys are crazy, right?

Just wouldn't happen to somebody like me. And I had no confidence. Maybe even aspiration to be able to take on such bigger roles, but I did and I was relatively successful, you know, in those roles as well. Another interesting thing would be being successful, but coming from when we do all our personality assessments, like the Myers Briggs assessment, for example, I am an INFJ and on the score of introvert I, I am 20 out of 20 introverted.

So, and in one of my early assessments in Proctor and Gamble, it says Kenneth should be somebody works by himself, let him work, you know, don't make him work in teams. He doesn't like complexity. And I say all this because while that might be my natural self and my natural tendency, I've also been able, as you mentioned, to step out of my comfort zone, to practice, to try new things, and then to be able to hone these other skills.

Also be able to lead in a larger organization. But in that respect to your question. The two biggest transitions for me would be number one, moving from more of a functional type of role into an operational role, running restaurants, working with P& Ls, working with teams and people and trying to get results from people, trying to build an organization and a culture.

That was one of the pivotal transitions for me. Of course, a huge transition for me was moving beyond the shores of Singapore in my comfort zone again and moving to a place like China, which was a strategic market. And moving, especially when my Chinese was not very good, I'd never been to China before and going really cold into that marketplace.

Those things really changed the way I looked at business, the way I learned. And the one thing I would say within both of these pivotal transitions, I have had mentors and coaches and advocates that supported me to make these changes and supported me when I actually went on to these roles as well. So that really was a critical success factor for these transitions.

[00:07:29] Vanessa T: Kenneth, I wanted to pick up on something you mentioned and I wanted to understand when you said you were a reluctant leader and you mentioned your Myers Briggs as an INFJ. What made you take on such big leadership roles knowing that perhaps it may have gone against your natural personality and to what you described as being a reluctant leader?

What was that pivotal moment for you? 

[00:07:50] Kenneth C: Yeah, I would like to say that I had many epiphanies along the way, but the reality is that I had many nudges along the way. While I was very comfortable in my functional roles or in my local market roles, you know, I was always encouraged to step out of the comfort zones and do something at a high level.

To be fair, the company had given me a lot of training and development, and I got some good results. After a while, I thought to myself that it must be time for me to step up as well and contribute back in terms of leading, not just the business, but being able to be a senior leader and share some of my learnings with the folks below as well.

That helped me really step up and move on. 

[00:08:30] Vanessa T: I like how you talk about leveraging on that network. Yeah. And those nudges along the way, and we know how important the role of mentors and colleagues and sometimes peers and managers are in our development. I wanted to pick up a little bit more about this piece about the reluctant leader and in order to move away from being that reluctant leader and to really step up, what were some beliefs that you had to challenge?

[00:08:53] Kenneth C: I've always tried to pause and reflect on what holds me back in terms of being bolder, in terms of taking on new challenges. And I guess I try to adopt a, what I call a heads up approach, being safe in our own comfort zone, especially being Asians, we tend to be great at getting busy and doing all these executional things and doing a great job in it.

Like a dog on a bone, once we get onto a project, we just keep on biting up the project. But sometimes we don't lift our heads and ask ourselves, are we really in the right direction? So having a heads up approach and being more of a steward of the business is something that I stress at all times. And so when I'm in a position, a little bit static.

I do look for opportunities, which allows me to stretch my thinking a little bit more. When I got to senior positions, how I would always challenge myself is to ask and reflect on myself and say, if somebody came onto my role today, would he or she be able to do a better job than I would? And we've seen this in CEOs.

When you get in and you look at Disney, you change a CEO and the trajectory can change immediately because a good leader can actually change the trajectory of the business. I challenged myself and say, what then am I not doing? Or what courage do I need? to be able to take on bolder decisions so that the business and organization can do better.

I would say that a lot of it falls on self reflection, on trying to understand where your strengths and weaknesses are and working towards overcoming some of your weaknesses or crisis of confidence and those sorts of things. 

[00:10:17] Vanessa T: I like how you talk about this self reflection and really understanding yourself very well in order to understand how far you are able to go.

[00:10:24] Vanessa I: Thank you so much for sharing, Kenneth. When I listen to you, I can really hear that each of these transitions challenge you to step out of your comfort zone. I remember that in your commentary in the Channel News Asia article, you admitted not being to China before your assignment. And you even wrote about the fact that your Mandarin was not very strong.

What prompted you to want to step out of your comfort zone in Singapore to make that important transition? Can you tell us a little bit more about that? 

[00:10:53] Kenneth C: Well, you know, I hate to admit it, but even in that decision, I was a reluctant leader because they had asked me to go earlier and I said, no. But again, as I mentioned earlier, I thought it was time for me to step up given the amount of development that the company had invested in me, given that I had enough exposure around the region.

It was time for me to take on a bigger role to help the company and also to share my experiences with the organization as well. So that's one enabler I would say, the responsibility and the commitment to step up and give back to the company who has given me my positions in development and all sorts of things.

The second thing obviously was family, and my wife finally gave the consent to go, and so that was good. My two cats had no choice, so that was bad for them, but that was certainly another big enabler. As I mentioned before, I think one important part of it was this whole notion of corporate advocacy, encouragement, and support, I guess.

All my bosses and all my leaders were nudging me to go. They were encouraging me to go. They clearly offered a support system for me to succeed when I was there. So it made me feel much more comfortable to take on the role. The last thing, which I think is very important, and I've talked to various CEOs in China, for example, when they were there, especially a nuanced market like China, which is so different from the West.

Having the right regional partner, meaning the right regional boss that looks after the marketplace, that pairing can be very important and useful because it allows the local market lead to be able to get down and get the job done while also having a better understanding of the nuanced marketplace by the regional or the division boss as well.

So that pairing is very important. Those were some of the enablers or the gates that I had to go through in order to make that decision to go to China. But of course, when I went there, making a decision and getting down with the job is totally two different things. And as I said, I'd never been to China before.

I went to the middle of winter and I was getting across the Lupu bridge in Shanghai and the city became bigger. I went, Oh my goodness me. You know, what did I get myself into? Like in every transition, you jump head in first, you get yourself into the business and understand very quickly and just have that trust and confidence that you're put there because of your capability.

Because you're able to do it, and I think, you know, everything falls in place after that. So it's about giving the try. 

[00:13:11] Vanessa T: That was a tremendous amount of faith and I think earned trust that you had obviously built over the years with your organization. I love hearing about your sense of responsibility towards the organization.

Does that come from your education, your values, or is it something that you built along the way with your organization? 

[00:13:30] Kenneth C: I think there are two things. One is pride in the work that you do. So for example, within Asia, within Singapore, within China, I've always advocated that, you know, ideas don't need to always flow from the West to the East, you know, that could be reverse innovation or reverse boomerangs that go with great ideas from the East to the West.

For example, delivery being one of those things, we started home delivery very early in the early 2000s and that now has become a global convenience, a channel for the system, for example. So that's very exciting. But the second thing I think is responsibility to building the organization and particularly in Asia where all of us are young executives, you know, I felt it was important that I had achieved a level of success and I thought it was my responsibility to give back to the organization and to our people to help lift up everybody so that they could also be successful.

[00:14:21] Vanessa T: Thank you for that. You know, in, in our roles, Vanessa Iloste and I, in our roles in HR, we coach many talents in our organization. And one of the topics that often comes up is the need for people to step out of their comfort zone. And like you mentioned in your article on Channel News Asia, we observed that sometimes it can be really challenging to convince talents to step away from the creature comforts of their home country.

And in this case of Singapore, which is a really progressive country and very comfortable living here. But it's oftentimes quite difficult for us to encourage talents to take on challenges outside of their home country in a different location. So, what would you say, Kenneth, to individuals who aspire for senior roles in organizations, but are struggling with this level of sacrifice that they believe they need to make?

What do you say to them? 

[00:15:12] Kenneth C: Yeah, I think all the logical rationale of moving in, taking on these opportunities are out there. So, what I can't express or teach is hunger, right? There are other executives in other markets who really are more hungry for the opportunity. And I think we in Singapore are less so, but I guess, you know, one of the things we should recognize would be that the business playing field has changed.

Everything now is interconnected and it's really a global world. We kind of need a mindset change. And in the old days, a cross functional experience was good enough, right? And then we could get into the business and run a business. And we've talked about that before, but I think in today's global world, where everything's interconnected, broader experiences, regional experiences, and cross market experiences.

That's become green fees almost to become an enterprise or global leader. And I think all of us have been in business for enough to know that we've also given commentary to some of our leaders who have not taken international roles, and we do give comments that they don't understand the markets well enough.

They are coming from one point of view. And certainly those are things that we don't want to carry with us as we try to lead in the markets. I think now as the world is becoming more disruptive, every company is getting much more disciplined and, you know, uh, cost conscious. You got to recognize that opportunities at the senior levels are quite scarce.

And when they do come around, I think it's something you need to just raise your hand up and get it under your belt. And while it might be a bit difficult, it's almost like us Singaporean guys going to national service. It's painful while you're doing it sometimes, but once you're done, it was such a valuable experience.

You've learned so much. And I think today's world, just like an educational qualification is important. I do believe a regional exposure or cross market exposure gives you strong qualifications also for future jobs as well. The last thing I would say, especially for Asian folks would be, and executives in particular is that you should ask for some of the compensation or relocation needs that you might require for you and family.

A lot of our experts from the other parts of the world do ask for them and we should allow ourselves to make our families comfortable and ourselves comfortable and give our families as well, the experiences overseas, a rich experience that we would also have ourselves as well. 

[00:17:24] Vanessa T: Yeah. That international experience really is something that is very hard to replicate.

Through books or through experiences of others, you've really got to live it for yourself in order to understand what managing in a different context in a different environment is really like. Kenneth, can you share with us perhaps something that you learned on one of your assignments that you didn't expect?

[00:17:48] Kenneth C: Yeah, I think one of the big walls for me, I guess, coming from especially a small market like Singapore, then moving to a major market like China, which represents other major markets, I would say, is that the scale in which we think of things is so vastly different. In terms of, you know, in China, we're talking about expansion in the thousands versus here in the single digits.

In terms of opening new units, for example, we're talking about not just opening things up, but we need to talk about the enablers of the business, like your logistics, your farms, your supply chain, how you expand, how you go to market in terms of making it efficient. Those are things that we don't necessarily think about in a place like Singapore because we're an open market, we're a small market, our distribution points are easy, those sorts of things.

So I would say one of the biggest surprises was the differences in scale and how things are done. And having that perspective is such a rich learning, which can be applied to other markets as we lead other markets as well. So fantastic learnings there. Yeah. 

[00:18:53] Vanessa T: I like how you talk about learning through adversity, really learning through some of the difficulties that you've learned through those markets.

And really managing through really tough times or difficult or different markets really gave you that basis for managing in a much more complex environment. I wanted to pivot a little bit to this next piece about managing in crisis. And really, it's about stepping out of your comfort zone and managing crisis.

Now, you were instrumental in guiding McDonald's Singapore through the COVID 19 pandemic. And in April of 2020, it was announced that you would suspend all restaurant operations, including delivery and drive thru services, at the advice of the Ministry of Health. I know I was very disappointed because my family were a huge fan of McDonald's and my husband made a beeline for the closest McDonald's to pick up his last meal from McDonald's.

Can you share with us what it was like managing in times of crisis in a major crisis like this one? 

[00:19:49] Kenneth C: Well, you want to drag us back to the pandemic period. So, okay, here we go. 

[00:19:53] Vanessa T: Yes. 

[00:19:54] Kenneth C: I do remember that period at the time we had a few employees who unfortunately got COVID and in hindsight that seemed like a very little number now, but nevertheless, I remember on a Saturday night, we were given the advice to close by the next day.

And so all of us were stunned and in shock a little bit. And we said, first things first is we really have to pull all of our employees together, all the restaurant managers, all the office people and pull them into a call and tell them what's happening. But, you know, during that call, we said, the one thing that we need to address first is what will be on everybody's mind.

Are our jobs secure? Are there going to be any cuts? And so when we went on to the call, clearly we communicated things that need to be shared. But the one thing that we spent an inordinate amount of time was to reassure our folks that their jobs were safe. We're not cutting salary and, uh, take these two weeks as a break.

We will sort these things through and we'll come back even stronger. And I say that because number one, it was useful that I had crisis management experience clearly in my time in China. We had a lot of various things that popped up. I was also here running the business when SARS happened. So I understood some of the considerations that needed to be in place for this particular crisis.

But I think the most important thing, the two things I think I would say would be every company talks about leading by their values, and that's a nice thing to live when you are in good times. The question is, can you lead with your values in times of crisis? And to me, one of the opportunities to showcase the real brand and who we really stand for is to make sure that we live our values during this crisis.

So we always talk about people and customer first, and this was the time to really put our money where our mouth was. We certainly made sure that we took care of all employees, our seniors. We know we had 1, 500 Malaysians that had one day to decide to come down to Singapore. 700 of them came down, we put them up in accommodation and with allowances for two years because we know that we can't buy that kind of loyalty.

In fact, it's something that we should appreciate. We told all our suppliers that, you know, we're going to continue to support you. So on and so forth. And so I do believe that crisis is a time that you have to be financially responsible, but it's also an opportunity for you to showcase your whole system that you've been profitable for so long.

It's a blip in the history of what we've been doing and it's really time for us to step up and show our values. I hope we've done a good job there. Throughout the period, I think the other thing we tried to be sure about is showing empathy to every situation because everybody had different circumstances.

So again, trying to lead by having empathy for everybody's different circumstances as well. 

[00:22:38] Vanessa T: I think many of the things that McDonald's did was really putting people at the heart of many of your crucial decisions. And I love what you said about values and really keeping that at the center of many of your decisions that you've made.

And really, I think McDonald's has emerged stronger than ever before. People recognize the brand and recognize what you did for employees and for customers during that time. And I have to say that I believe that the brand has come back even better and stronger post pandemic. But... Certainly, I think your experiences in China and in leading complex situations around the region certainly helped to prepare you for what was an unprecedented moment during the pandemic.

[00:23:21] Kenneth C: Yeah. And so I do advocate now when I give talks or when I share with some of the young folks, you know, when they ask about what kind of experiences do we need as we try to move up to senior roles. I would say three, one is, as I mentioned before, operational experiences. So cross functional experiences so that you can understand all aspects of the business better.

But that's quite common. The second one is what we're talking about now, which is visual experiences. Go out and get the opportunity to work in different marketplaces. But I would say the third experience now in this type of VUCA world is what I would call crucible experiences. So if somebody gave you the opportunity to go to a market that you need to turn around or to take a project, which we can bang our head on the wall for some time, you just can't get it moving and say, why don't you give it a shot?

It's something you should raise your hands for because it is in these sort of projects or environments or moments where you really understand your own character. You really understand how people react to challenging set of circumstances. And you really understand how to bring people along a difficult journey with you.

So a great experience to notch up in your belt as well. 

[00:24:28] Vanessa T: Wow, I love that, crucible experiences and putting your hands up for a difficult project. Often, sometimes I think we see people shy away from those projects simply because you don't know if you're even going to be successful. But I really like what you said about knowing what first you're able to do and then being confident and taking on some of these projects can really help to accelerate your own growth and ultimately the experiences that you'll gain along the way.

Kenneth, super, super interesting. And I think you also covered some of these in your book, Asians in Charge. We picked up a copy of your book, Asians in Charge, How to Earn Your Place at the Leadership Table. And I thoroughly enjoyed reading it. And I really appreciate it, the candid way that you talk about evolving the powerful Asian leadership brand so that more Asian talents can rise to the top positions in multinationals.

I know you covered some of these points as we have been talking along the way, but I'd love to just hear some of your, if you know, if you could just summarize some of your top advice that you would give to individuals so that they can earn their place at the leadership table. What would you say? 

[00:25:37] Kenneth C: The first, as I said, how can we be more stewards of the business?

So you know, Asians, and I'm generalizing here, of course. But Asians tend to be very good at execution, and that's the core strength of what we do. How do we elevate our thinking a little bit more to be a bit more visionary, to be a bit more strategic, to also have ways to come up with more creative solutions versus obvious solutions.

And the example I give moving up this ladder is, you know, two companies, Foxconn and Apple, right? Foxconn is maybe a, I forget the number, it might be an 88 billion market cap. Apple's a 3 trillion market cap. And who wouldn't want to run any of these businesses? They're both great. I'm not debating which is better, but all I'm saying is that Foxconn tends to be a little bit of a manufacturer for parts for Apple.

Apple has the IP, the creativity. If we could all aspire just to move more towards the creative and visionary and inspiring side of things, I think all our brands, all our businesses, all of ourselves would do a lot better as well. So that's one, be a steward of business. 

The second, what I would say is in everything that we do in today's world is how do we build bridges of trust within the organization, between organizations, between our stakeholders?

In my book, I talked to Belinda Wong, who is the chairperson of Starbucks, and she says all she does is try to be this bridge, which allows the headquarters in Seattle to be very comfortable with the nuanced things that they do in China. And how does she become this bridge for her own local folks in China to share some of the global corporate things that they want to do, which are also very relevant in this nuanced place in China.

And in order to do that, she's obviously very transparent, very candid, very open, very authentic, so that everything that she tries to do all comes from a place of wanting to help, wanting to do better. So how do we also, in our practice, build this bridge of trust, being transparent, being candid? When I work with my leadership teams and I have my constant one on one communications with them, I am often candid.

I often challenge, I often recognize, but because I have built this trust with them and I've been open with them all these years, they know that everything I say just comes from a place of wanting to be helpful, of wanting to develop them as well. So building trust, especially moving up the corporate ladder is going to be extremely important for all of us.

[00:27:55] Vanessa T: Excellent. Well, to our audience members, we'll put the link to Kenneth's book in our show notes, and I thoroughly enjoyed reading the book. Kenneth, you have many nuggets of wisdom in the book, as well as many interviews also with business leaders that I've also learned a great deal from. 

[00:28:12] Vanessa I: It's so inspiring to listen to you, Kenny, and I'm curious, with so many years of rich experience being a leader, a mentor, a role model, an advocate.

What do you hope to bring to the community in the next phase of your career? 

[00:28:26] Kenneth C: Well, you know, I wrote the book and, uh, my hope is that I can be an example of an imperfect leader. Not every leader is as polished as you see every time on TV or anything, but I can be an example of that imperfect leader, one that maybe has his fair share of doubts, sometimes with a crisis of confidence.

But despite all that, and with a willingness to, of course, practice and the courage to put myself out there. I hope I can also be example of that same leader who can at the same time achieve success, be creative, achieve results, and nurture winning organizations while holding on to my strong embedded Asian traits and values as well.

So we don't all have to be perfect, but we can all be successful. 

[00:29:08] Vanessa T: And with that, thank you so much, Kenneth, we have thoroughly enjoyed our conversation. I really appreciate how honest, vulnerable, and really open about what you talked about being a reluctant leader or an imperfect leader. And that's being very real.

I thank you so much for taking time with us today. And for sharing so much of your inspirational wisdom. So thank you, Kenneth, for joining us today on the Career Transitions Podcast and for sharing with us your incredible career journey. You're indeed such a role model for so many leaders. Thank you for joining us today.

[00:29:43] Kenneth C: Thank you.