Aligning Your Purpose with Your Career Transition with Tamara Sigerhall | E4

We are thrilled to speak Tamara Sigerhall, Client Partner at Korn Ferry Singapore.

We will explore a theme that is at the core of career transition: how to align your move with your purpose and values?

Tamara defines it beautifully as her “North Star”.

She also talks about the support network that is needed, what she called her “squad” and pays tribute to the ones who supported her.

Connect with Tamara

Connect with us on LinkedIn:

· Vanessa Iloste (Host)

· Vanessa Teo (Host)

· Aaron Wu (Producer)

Transcript

[00:00:05] Vanessa I: Today, we welcome to our show Tamara Sigerhall, client partner at Korn Ferry Singapore. We have known Tamara for several years in her capacity as an executive search partner and coach. 

[00:00:18] Vanessa T: We thought it would be really interesting to bring her to the show because she's led many leaders through career transitions and Tamara has such valuable insights in terms of what makes successful leadership transitions.

[00:00:31] Vanessa I: We are going to explore a theme that is really core to transition. And this is how you align your journey with your purpose and values. We are also exploring the importance of being supported in the process by a strong network of individuals. Tamara call it a squad. Let's listen to the show.

[00:00:56] Vanessa T: Hi, everyone. Welcome to our next episode of Career Transitions, we're your hosts, Vanessa Iloste and Vanessa Teo. 

[00:01:03] Vanessa I: Today, we are so excited to introduce our new guest. Her name is Tamara Sigerhall, and she's executive search and coach at Korn Ferry Singapore. So for the ones who do not know, Korn Ferry is an organization consulting firm.

And we know Tamara because of the great work she has done on the executive search and also on the coaching side. So Tamara, you are an executive search professionals and you have been building an incredible network of candidates and clients all over Asia. You have been based in Singapore since 2008, but you were originally born in Germany.

It took me a while to realize that you were from Germany originally. You hold a bachelor degree in Chinese language and management studies and a postgraduate diploma from a law school in the UK. Prior to your career in search, you were a British qualified private equity lawyer practicing with Linklaters in London, Hong Kong, and Shanghai.

[00:02:01] Vanessa T: Well, welcome to our show, Tamara. 

[00:02:03] Tamara S: Thank you so much. It's so great to be here. 

[00:02:06] Vanessa T: Wow, thank you so much for being here with us. We're going to start to get to know you a little bit better. So Tamara, throughout your life and career, you've made some really crucial transitions. Moving between different countries, building your career and taking on increasingly challenging leadership opportunities.

You started as a lawyer and then moved into executive search. Now, as you reflect back on all these crucial transitions, which of these do you consider as being significant in your journey? 

[00:02:34] Tamara S: Thanks so much for giving me the opportunity to reflect on on this journey because it has been quite a, quite a ride over the past 20 or so years.

And as I think back, I think there, there were a couple of crossroads in my life where I really had to sort of pause and make an intentional decision on which path to follow. And I'd say sort of deciding to build a career in Asia rather than going back to Europe was one of the first and most pivotal decisions I made.

It really meant taking a road less traveled for a young European female professional. But as I reflect back, that's really a consistent choice in my life and one that's driven by that curious adventure inside of me.

[00:03:15] Vanessa I: When you look at all the transition Tamara, I was thinking, was the transition from lawyer to executive search the most difficult or was it something else that has done over the last few years?

[00:03:28] Tamara S: Yeah, interestingly, to this day, I still get questions as to why I decided to leave the legal profession. And I recall my father being probably the first one to give me a really puzzled look and shaking his head when I told him I was planning to switch careers. And you know, I think my experience as a Gen Xer is one that people just expect our generation to make a choice, be resilient, and grind it out.

I don't know, maybe I'm an early millennial or something, but my answer as to why I made that choice, it's remained the same over the years. And it was that I really wasn't willing to sacrifice my dream of starting a family for the goal of, say, partnership in a law firm. And you know, that's kind of a principle that's actually always served me well as a North Star in all of my career decisions.

I also know that I've deviated from it from time to time and invariably I find myself in troubled waters. So the challenge for me has been less around the change itself, but around just the clarity of the why surrounding the change. 

[00:04:31] Vanessa I: That's very interesting. So when, when you say the, the North Star, is it like basically a sentence that you have or a set of principles that you have?

Because some people, you know, they have a mantra, some others, they have something a little bit more sophisticated. So I was curious, you know, how does it look like when you, when you say I go back to my North Star for instance? 

[00:04:53] Tamara S: Yeah, I mean, I think the beauty about the North Star is that it's always there, but you can look at it from different angles.

Yes, there's definitely sort of a mantra or whatever. There's a life purpose actually centered that I've developed as part of my own coaching practice for myself. And that really is around being the kind of person who holds the space for others to transform to witness other people as they come into their full potential.

And first and foremost, that actually involves those little individuals that have been put in my care. And those are my two daughters. And I actually find that being a parent has been incredibly enriching as I sort of navigate the often very dramatic waters of corporate life. You know, you learn a lot from being a parent in terms of how to handle people who have sometimes not the most rational of emotions or are going through difficult periods themselves.

You learn to hold the space. So, yeah, my North Star is, is my family. 

[00:05:53] Vanessa T: I love how you have this really clearly defined North Star and one that I think has certainly helped you as you've made those many transitions. Tamara, as you think about holding this North Star and keeping that strong purpose, as you reflect on the many clients and the many candidates that you've helped to place across large organizations, medium sized organizations, but some of the really best companies across Southeast Asia, I'm sure that you've helped many of them think through some of these transitions as they're considering new roles. You've certainly had to talk them through, you know, what would life look like beyond that today?

Um, and helping them to create that desire for that new environment and thinking through these, these major moves, I'm sure you've seen some patterns. In these moves. And can you share with us what have some of those learnings been for you? What was some key observations that you've seen? 

[00:06:47] Tamara S: You're right. As an executive search professional, I do pursue passive candidates and my role is to persuade them to trust me as a partner in exploring the unknown.

Ultimately, and this really comes back to the North star is I really believe that a career move only makes sense for an individual if it aligns with their own personal North star. And that's different for each one of us. So that's why for me, each assignment is an opportunity for each candidate to discover or rediscover their own gifts, their values, and their achievements.

Sometimes to your point around sort of patterns, I do find myself having to encourage some individuals to shift from running away from their current circumstances to thinking about, you know, what would it look like to walk with purpose towards your next opportunity? And so that doesn't mean that I recommend being super prescriptive on what you will consider as a next career move, but it does mean creating clarity together with them on what kind of career moves they would say no to.

[00:07:51] Vanessa I: That's interesting. So in this process, I was curious, how do you find the right pace? Because every single individual is different. Some people, you know, they're very quick to see opportunities and, and to jump into new universe and new environment. Some others are a little bit, you know, slower into appreciating newness and new paradigms.

And I assume that you need to adapt or so the pace of what you do to their own pace. So how, how does it materialize for you? And what does that mean? 

[00:08:24] Tamara S: Yeah, I think that's where I put my coaching hat on, right? And I remove my consulting and selling hat. I mean, of course, I try to sell the dream, the opportunity to each candidate, but when there's resistance, I'm always curious, where's this coming from?

Right? Is it around fear? Is it around values? I think that's the really exciting journey when you don't try to sort of push against a door or push against a wall, but you're, you're being curious and really wanting to understand what's behind that nook. And sometimes I do say, okay, you know what? I totally see where you are right now.

Let's stay connected. And they're always grateful for that. And sometimes I'm like, well, you have nothing to lose by engaging in a conversation. And I always create an atmosphere of trust and comfort around exploring in a safe space. So that's how I adapt. 

[00:09:14] Vanessa I: What about the cross cultural dimension? Because the way, you know, you would have done it in a European context or in your original country in Germany would be very, very different from the way we do it in Asia and from one country to another, it can change a lot.

So what have you learned all over these years in terms also of adapting yourself to different individuals? And we talked about different individuals, but different cultures in the background. 

[00:09:41] Tamara S: I grew up myself as a third culture kid in a very different sort of cultural environment. So the one thing I think I've always carried with me is a deep belief that deep down we're all the same in terms of our needs and our wishes of wanting to be accepted, wanting to be seen.

Think every person wants to be seen and valued for who they are with a respect for the differences that we all have, but in an embracing kind of way. So I'm always more curious as to why people make certain decisions or communicate in a different way, what is underneath that, rather than, oh, that person is from that country, so they are like this and it doesn't work with that culture.

[00:10:24] Vanessa T: Yeah, the way. Tamara that you've illustrated how when you take a candidate through a journey of really a crucial life transition, you're not just selling a dream, but you're really helping them to journey through their underlying purpose, the values that they hold, and ultimately making the right decision for themselves and for their families.

I think it's, it's really so crucial that they're really, really thinking not just of what is that immediate role that they're looking at, but way beyond that and way deeper. 

[00:10:51] Tamara S: So true. I worked for a company briefly that had a mantra that I thought was, it's always stuck with me and it's the right person can transform an organization and the right organization or job can transform a person.

And it's so simple, but it's so true. 

[00:11:10] Vanessa I: It's very true. So one of the reasons why I think of you very often, Tamara, is because of the fact that you are not only an executive search professional, you're also a coach and you're working on leadership assessment. You're working also on helping people to make sense of where they are in their career journey.

So I was wondering, you know. On top of the learnings and the many learnings you had had as a search professional, what are the learnings that came from the coaching side that you can share with us today? 

[00:11:43] Tamara S: Thanks for that question. I mean, it's a real privilege to be able to coach people through transformations and transitions.

I'd say a common theme that I love to explore when people are embarking on a new journey is how they're going to combine strategy and inner wisdom. To fulfill their potential in their next role. So there's a lot of butterflies. There's a lot of excitement, but I think it's also a really great opportunity when people are transitioning into new roles and new companies to be an explorer.

So we explore being curious about the culture. How do things really get done? And I also invite my clients to build a squad. So who's going to be your mentor in that squad? Who are the people in that organization that you're going to need as your sponsors? And in which areas do you think you're going to need coaching?

So understanding where you can be vulnerable and where you really need to be sure to bring your best game. Those are choices, those are decisions that can really make or break a new start. And so being intentional and thoughtful here, it can be game changing for people starting a new role. 

[00:12:47] Vanessa I: Have you seen, uh, when you are actually given the opportunity to coach a person that you have placed the impact of what you are doing in the, you know, in the beginning of their role?

I mean, can you see the. Oh, if you know, we had not invested into that transition coaching, I could have seen or I could have identified some of the pitfalls that would have happened or some of the difficulties that they would have faced. 

[00:13:14] Tamara S: Yeah. So part of coaching and ethics is I actually don't like to wear a double hat.

For the same person, and I tend to let go of an individual when they go into a new job. I keep them as a friend, but I'm not sure I'm always going to be the best coach for them because I still have a relationship with the client. And I think it's important to keep those boundaries of ethics intact. But that being said, I have coached people that have not been my placements.

We don't have that conflict of interest and in those instances, both myself and the individual are really free to explore a lot of themes that are not loaded with expectations. 

[00:13:56] Vanessa T: Tamara, I want to go back to one of the points that you talked about building your squad and building that network. It's so crucial when people make changes, when you go through changes in career transitions.

And it's really important to be building this type of network. And, you know, there's something that you always do as part of your role in search. And you always host a lot of different round tables and exchanges, and you bring so many different people across industries together and really help to create that network amongst professionals.

And this is something that why I've seen you do very, very well. Tell us why, why do you do this? Why do you invest in these events? And why would you recommend, or would you recommend our audience to attend these networking opportunities, especially if I'm really introverted and I'm not sure this is something I want to attend, what would you say?

[00:14:47] Tamara S: Oh, there's a lot to unpack there, Vanessa. But yeah, I mean, I think to your first point, these things are a labor of love. They really are. And I think they're really tied as well to my strong belief that we are better as a collective. Then we are as individuals. There are gifts you have that I don't have, but they may not come to life unless I ask you certain questions or, you know, we're like two entities coming together and bumping against each other with ideas and thoughts.

So I love hosting these events because I feel that it always ignites a little spark that has the potential to create as much as a movement or as little as just an idea that could develop into an action in another organization that can have ripple effects. Not that I'm saying what I'm doing is anything remotely as, you know, earthshaking as going to the moon, but it always calls to mind that quote from JFK, where he says, we choose to go to the moon, not because it is easy, but because it is hard.

And because that goal will serve to organize and measure the best of our energies and skills. And it's really something really special when you see human beings getting together and exchanging ideas. So that's in a nutshell why I do it. Do I think it's suited for everyone? I hope that these events are inclusive and the way I structure mine is that I like to cater for people who are comfortable speaking in front of crowds, but also for people who are more comfortable to speak in little groups amongst each other.

I hope that creates a space where everyone can unfold. But I hear you, Vanessa, they're not for everyone. Sometimes the most meaningful interactions are one on one, deep, meaningful conversations. 

[00:16:35] Vanessa T: Well, I love these networking events. I'm sure Vanessa Iloste, myself, we've been to many of these events, and I think we built some really important networks and people who we can learn from.

In many different ways. So... 

[00:16:47] Vanessa I: Yeah, I remember like during the last couple of months, I mean, you were one of the first ones after the COVID to reestablish some of the round tables, Tamara. And this was, you know, something that people were very grateful for. 

I remember us getting back together just after he was allowed to, to be together in Singapore and the people around the room, they felt a lot of gratitude to you for getting them together again and for giving them this space and this opportunity to reconnect. 

And I remember on that day, it was so funny because a lot of people, they didn't want to leave the event. They just wanted to continue talking and they were so happy, you know, to, to be together, just to have this sense of togetherness.

After many, many months, especially as a HR professional going through a very tough time, it was reassuring and it was comforting to see other familiar faces and people who had been through the same difficulties as we did. So thank you for doing that because I know that every time you do it, you know, there is this sense of gratitude in the room that maybe people do not express to you.

[00:17:53] Tamara S: Oh, thank you. That is very sweet of you to say that. Thank you. And we can't live in a vacuum too right? 

[00:18:00] Vanessa T: We can't live in a vacuum, we can't learn in a vacuum. So I really appreciate these opportunities to network as well. 

[00:18:06] Vanessa I: Yes. And sometimes some of the themes you have put on the table, they were a little bit out there.

So I remember sometimes thinking, what am I going to do talking about this particular topic? But you find yourself actually, uh, enthusiastic about the experience, the learning and also the sharing with others and at the end with a little bit of research, we can all have some perspective on different topics.

So thank you so much for that. So one of the topics that Vanessa, you and I are very interested in because we are part of this community is the topic of working mother. And we wanted to ask you about your own recipes or your own philosophy when it comes to how to organize all that. I mean, you are surrounded by a lot of candidates who are also working mothers.

So you might have learned things from them as well. So we were wondering, you know, is there anything that you would like to share with us today? 

[00:19:03] Tamara S: Well, I don't think I have figured it out, is my honest, honest answer. It is a work in progress, but what I can share is sort of the evolution of my thinking on this, of my journey.

So I think I grew up in a generation where I was told I can have it all. And not only can I have it all, I must have it all. You know, I must be successful in my career, but then when I became a mother, I must be a good mother and make all the right choices. Luckily, I have a phenomenal husband who is incredibly patient and always supports me in my choices.

I don't know how I managed to get this guy. He's amazing. But whether I lean into my career, or whether I want to lean into my family, he's been supportive. And I think that makes a huge difference. You know, they say who you marry really makes a difference in how your life ends up turning out. But I've seen that for myself, like I've had to meet some intentional decisions to return to my North star.

And it's been really liberating for me to do so. And it's really taken so much pressure off myself that I realized I was putting on myself. So I'd say my advice is decide how you want to measure success, not how your parents, your peers, your colleagues, your schoolmates, or whoever else would measure you by.

How do you want to look back at your life when you take your last breath? I know how I want that to look. So that's how I make my decisions on how to balance my work and my personal life. 

[00:20:35] Vanessa T: When you think back to your early years as a working parent, what advice would you have to moms who are just perhaps entering into that phase of becoming a working mom?

What would you say to them that you would say perhaps even to your younger self?

[00:20:52] Tamara S: I would say, listen to your intuition and stand your ground. I am so grateful that with the pandemic, we've opened up so many more options for women, for moms, you know, we can work flexibly now. We can work part time. We can work from home.

Those things were not available to me. And I'm so grateful that these are game changing choices for this generation of young mothers. And so I would really encourage those young mothers to listen out to signals that a potential employer puts pressure on being physically present over being productive.

And that's really, it's, again, it's a choice. If it's important for you to be present as a parent, as well as being a productive team member, you know, don't be afraid to walk away. It's all a choice and every choice is valid. 

[00:21:42] Vanessa T: And every choice is what you said ties back into your North Star, which is again, going back to what you said earlier, it's so crucial to understand what your deeper purpose and values are.

[00:21:53] Vanessa I: And do you see it when you are talking to your candidates these days? Like, do you see the changes happening, like in the way they approach you, in the way they interact with you or with your clients? I mean, is it something very tangible? 

[00:22:07] Tamara S: Yes, absolutely. I have seen a real shift in terms of how people evaluate opportunities.

I've seen people say no to great jobs because it would take them further away from their family. Or it would mean less time with their family. That's a choice that is reflective of my North Star, but I've also seen other people who have other North Stars and make decisions based on that. I think that's really one of those silver linings that has come from the pandemic because we have had the time to reflect what's important to me, what are my values.

And it is so beautiful to see people make decisions in alignment with their values now. 

[00:22:49] Vanessa I: Exactly. So I, I wanted to say a big thank you to you, Tamara, for your time today. We have learned a lot from you. I wanted to know if you had two to three advice on top of all the ones you have shared that you would like to share with us, especially when it comes to transition.

[00:23:08] Tamara S: Obviously, number one is figure out your North Star. You really need to then decide how you define success for yourself based on that North Star, right? And don't feel like you have to do it alone. Build your squad. 

[00:23:21] Vanessa I: That's very good. That's very precious. I'm sure we can actually use that on a daily basis, even if we are not in carrier transition.

[00:23:30] Vanessa T: Yeah. Thank you so much. It has been so... Such a pleasure having you with us today on the Career Transitions Podcast. We have learned so much from you and it has been a really great reflection for both of us as professionals, as well as working moms, and certainly we want to say a huge thank you to you for sharing all of your great advice and reflections today.

And I'm sure that our audience would also really appreciate this. So thank you for joining us Tamara. 

[00:23:59] Tamara S: My pleasure. Thank you for having me

[00:24:01] Vanessa T: And thank you everyone for joining us today.